Limited Means? So What?
As we all know, the YHA’s charitable objective begins “To help all, especially young people of limited means…”. An extensive reorganisation of the Association’s governance is under way to bring it more into line with these beneficiaries, but what are they doing to help them where it counts - in the wallet?
Back in the olden days it was simple: if you were a student, unemployed, disabled or a pensioner you paid the under 18’s rate for your overnights as set out in the handbook. Now it’s a lot more complicated.
For a start, the handbook gives only a rough indication of what it might cost to stay at any given hostel, and says nothing to indicate that concessions are available to anybody over 18. If you dig around long enough, there’s a really well hidden page on the YHA website that says
YHA is happy to offer members who are young people, people of limited means, carers, or those aged over 60 years a concession of up to £3 on overnight prices.
So that’s OK then, those on limited means may be able to get £3 off, if the warden’s in a good mood when they ring. They have to ring the warden - central booking isn’t able to offer any concessionary rates to anybody, nor can you get them when booking online. If you’re trying to book yourself into a hostel early in the season when the warden’s not there, tough. If you can get free internet access at the library, but have to pay for phone calls, that’s tough too. No warden, no discount (and you won’t necessarily get one even then).
So, what if you’re prepared to jump through those hoops, but want to reduce transport costs by travelling in a group - maybe a group of similarly disadvantaged people, maybe your local YHA group. Well, you could be out of luck - Students and unemployed adults are explicitly denied a discount if they travel as part of a group. I suppose one or two young, poor people is OK, but start attracting groups of them and they might get the idea that the Association was set up especially for their benefit.
Hostels are losing their attraction to those on a tight budget. Self catering seems to be under continuous pressure. More and more hostels make you buy a breakfast from them rather than make your own. You can no longer bring a bottle of cheap plonk with you to enjoy with your meal, but must buy it from the YHA at inflated prices. Independent hostelling never looked so good.
We may soon have a governing structure that has quotas of young people at every level to keep the Association to its purpose. Will they be strong enough to get the executive to put some money where its mouth is?
Stop Press
Since posting the above, I’ve been sent this extract from the Spring 2007 Volunteer Warden Bulletin:
Yha has developed a new pricing policy for all its accommodation, which is based on the basic price of an adult overnight and the demand for the Hostel. In 2007 the new prices will be gradually introduced and the existing prices (holding rates) will remain in place until then. Prices will fluctuate within the year depending on forecasted demand, but these will be set for the year ahead and you will not have to calculate them yourselves. Please note there are no longer any discounts for students etc.
The last sentence (bolded by the YHA, not me) is a flat contradiction of the statement on their website already quoted above. So which one is true?
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Thanks to Chris for these comments, which express eloquently and passionately the message I was trying to post in mid March, but hit a snag!
So here is the full text which I tried to post a couple of weeks ago, with apologies for duplication of Chris’s remarks: BUT I WANT THE YHA MANAGEMENT HIERARCHY TO READ IT. I refer also to my similar postings on the CTC forum, and the responses!
I quote the aims of the YHA (for which it claims charitable status!) : “To help all, especially young people of limited means, to a greater knowledge, blah blah blah.”
I quote the 2005-2006 YHA “Go” Guide: p.16 “If you are a student aged 18 and over, not travelling as part of a group, you can claim a reduction on the Youth Hostel’s overnight chargeon production of a valid student identification card from your university or an ISIC, EURO<26, NUS card or connexions card."
This does not appear in the 2007-2008 Guide, or the new YHA website. Perhaps they forgot it!
I quote a document recently sent to wardens. “Please note there are no longer any discounts for students etc.” …..students usually are people of limited means. (etc?? does that mean the unemployed/means tested benefits etc. concession has gone, thus cutting out more people of limited means?)
Also the wardens’ document says “YHA has developed a new pricing policy for all its accommodation, which is based on the basic price of an adult overnight and the demand for the Hostel. In 2007 the new prices will be gradually introduced and the existing prices (holding rates) will remain in place until then. Prices will fluctuate within the year depending on forecasted demand but these will be set for the year ahead……”.
I don’t suppose YHA is going to be putting any prices DOWN, so that means prices during students’ holidays will go up because of “demand” (they can ONLY use the hostels during holidays, or hadn’t the YHA noticed?). Maybe the YHA can tell me I’m wrong.
So, student members (or other members of limited means) will be priced out of using hostels in holiday time, and are barred from many hostels during school term time (because schools demand the WHOLE hostel regardless of how many empty beds remain) and are barred from many smaller hostels in autumn, winter and spring (because of “rent-a hostel” now called “Escape to” schemes where whole hostels are hired out regardless of any empty beds remaining.)
One of the most sickening things I saw in the 2005-2006 guide said, on p.12 ” Hire the whole hostel to share with your friends.” They forgot the next six words: “and B******S to fee paying members.” (including those of limited means!!)
And still the YHA wants volunteers from the very same young people who are being discriminated against as members who are often “of limited means”.
Oh! YHA, you have really gone too far down the wrong road now. Independent hostels will prosper; take notice; they are getting their act together.
Comment by Megan — 5 Apr 2007 @ 9:09 pm
Being a life member and voluntary warden for the last 12 years, I have emailed YHA (on 25th March) for clarification about this. No reply has been forthcoming.
Comment by Roger Kidd — 6 Apr 2007 @ 9:06 am
Let’s start at the top shall we. Chris in his normal inimitable style just wants one thing - more freebies for local groups. They alrwady egt a discounted price for stopping at hostels but Chris wants the students to get even more of a discount. Perhaps you’d like YHA to pay you to stay at the hostels?
Megan is obviously a poor impoverished student who already get discounts on all sorts of things e.g. rail travel, coach travel, interest rates on loans etc but no she isn’t satisfied with that she wants discounted accommodation anywhere anytime. Wake up - look at a lot of the comments in the CTC forum where a lot of people are saying the same thing. YHA has to change, you may not like it, I’m not overly keen on a lot of it, they might be going in the right way they might not but one thing was for certain it couldn’t go on in the same way.
If that means that concessions for students are out then so be it. If every student votes with their feet then YHA will have egg on it’s face but a lot won’t either through apathy or becasue they don’t see it as an issue.
Even with the discount how much money were you putting YHA’s way each year or are you just another armchair hosteller?
Comment by me — 9 Apr 2007 @ 2:17 pm
Let’s start at the top, “me”, as of this year local groups get no discounts on hostel prices. I’ve got no problem with that, nor do most people I know in the Groups community. I don’t want handouts for local groups, I want the YHA to pursue its charitable objective by helping people of limited means get into the countryside.
What they’re actually doing is publicly investing a large sum in rearranging the governance arrangements to pay lip service to their aims, whilst secretly removing something which actively helps the people they’re supposed to be targeting.
If YHA wishes to make the argument that today’s business environment makes this discount impossible, let them make it in public instead of telling people they’re entitled to a discount of up to £3, whilst quietly telling wardens that this actually means a discount of £0.
Comment by Chris Hunt — 9 Apr 2007 @ 7:35 pm
So what’s your definition of ‘limited means’? There is a major national charity I know of whose definition of limited means is anyone in receipt of council tax benefit. JSA, Tax credit anything like that means zilch, council tax is the only one that counts. Fair? I’ll leave it to you to make your own mind up on that but it makes the point that ‘limited means ‘ is different things to different people.
If YHA strives to provide the cheapest it can in a market where it needs to be measured against comparable standard accommodation then why should it provide an additional concession to a group when in fact it is providing the opportunity to all?
As for Megan’s assertions about being priced out or excluded doesn’t she think that children are of limited means. Or for that matter that Escape To prices actually work out as cheaper than standard overnight prices. Obviously she lacks the ability to get a number of these poor students together.
Ok I’ll retract my comment about local groups getting a discount but I can’t accept what you say about it not being a problem. If so why did those who claim to speal for local groups have so much to say to oppose the idea when it was first raised and have continued to do so?
Comment by me — 9 Apr 2007 @ 8:07 pm
Can “me” please declare themselves - and your interests. Perhaps also advise which post you occupy in the “Screw as much money out of members” campaign!
Jeff
Comment by Jeff Evans — 11 Apr 2007 @ 4:17 pm
I’m a member of YHA (have been for 30 years +) and a member of a local group. I have no position inside YHA’s governing structure.
I just happen to beleive that some changes (painful as they may be) are necessary to enable YHA to survive in any form. I don’t agree with all of them but I think that most have been thought through before being implemented.
My pet hates are people who a) have power out of all proportion to their presence, b) people who think YHA can live in a socio-economic vacumn ignoring what’s happening about it and c) people who cannot accept that YHA has a renewed emphasis on youth and don’t like it (probably because they aren’t youths themselves anymore). As an aside having an emphasis on youth doesn’t necessarily mean subsidising their stays in hostels.
You don’t have to like my opinions any more than I don’t have to like yours but please try to be a bit more broad minded than ‘you support YHA management therefore you must be one of them’ You might have a cosy circle who are ‘like-minded’ but appreciate that there are others who are equally capable of independant thought and can come to other conclusions.
If I choose to remain anonymous that’s my perogative. If you have a problem with that - tough. Go find another forum other than the internet.
PS - all credit to Chris for not moderating comments in any way.
Comment by me — 11 Apr 2007 @ 7:48 pm
“Me” said, amongst other things, ‘c) people who cannot accept that YHA has a renewed emphasis on youth and don’t like it (probably because they aren’t youths themselves anymore).’
If that’s the case, can you explain why YHA is increasingly moving towards small rooms, en-suites, fancy meals and liquor licences? Those features don’t seem to me to be particularly ‘youth’ oriented, rather geared towards attracting those with the money to afford them.
Hardly in keeping with the Association’s charitable objective “To help all, especially young people of limited means…”.
Comment by Jacki — 15 Apr 2007 @ 10:06 pm
And one more thing.
I’m all for children/youths being fed decent food, and I applaud YHA’s divergence from the school-dinner type meals of old.
However, I don’t think advertising for “Commis Chefs” and “Restaurant Managers” is in keeping with a renewed emphasis on youth either.
These are the type of positions generally advertised for a hotel.
But seeing as YHA is just another hotel chain these days, I suppose that’s OK then.
Comment by Jacki — 15 Apr 2007 @ 10:27 pm
Jacki - because youth orientated includes families who do have a preference towards their own rooms.
On the food and drink I tend to agree with you but I think the days of generalists in hostel staff are gone. One thing I will certainly stand on the barricades with you is over any moves to reduce the availability or convenience of self catering e.g. more b&b only prices
Comment by me — 16 Apr 2007 @ 5:08 pm
Just to put “me” on the right track, Megan is not an impoverished student, but a member for many years.
I have volunteered, cleaned carpets, wardened remote hostels, given money to YHA for “small hostels”, brought many groups of thirty and more to a variety of hostels (but never to the deny paid up members access while rooms/beds were available!); I have always tried to give support to the YHA for keeping the more remote hostels available for members. Do I “lack the ability to get a number of these poor students together”? “me” is on a sticky wicket when he (or she) criticizes my abilities, past or present. I suggest he (or she) refrains from doing that unless he (or she) actually knows what my abilities are (or aren’t).
I am aware, however, that many such students want to travel independently of organised groups, and my main gripe is the regular exclusion of these people from “activity/school/group” biased hostels and the closing down of the out of the way places where loners and couples can get away into the wilder places. Luckily, independent hostels are thriving, many of a standard easily matching or bettering the accepted “simple” hostel category which is all many such young people want or need.
….but this is tiresome. No doubt “me” has done plenty for the YHA too……mmmmm.
I have heard recently that Tyncornel Hostel is running smoothly and is open as usual. Dolgoch Hostel is to remain open, the Elenydd Wilderness Hostels Trust having had their offer to buy it accepted by the YHA. When you book up, don’t let the booking people at Matlock tell you they are closed. THEY ARE NOT. Check out
http://www.elenydd-hostels.co.uk
Comment by Megan — 13 Jun 2007 @ 3:26 pm
the person calling themselves me is talking total rubbish. whats with all the talk about people getting working tax credit being of limited means. no-one suggests that everyone that gets any kind fo benefit i.e. working tax credit should qualify for a discount. the policy was ok as it was. saying the yha needs to change in other words increase profit is silly. it may need to control what it spends but it certainly is taking in alot of money. if the yha is losing money it is down to being badly run and not down to giving people a £3 discount. youth hostels provide no frill accomodation and yet they often take in more money for one room per night than alot of hotels. well would you agree most hotels get roughly between £50 and £100 a night per room? well add up how much a hostel that charges £19 per person in a 10 bedded room makes for that one room per night. it is alot of cash.
Comment by mark wallis — 7 Jan 2008 @ 4:21 pm
on the focusing on youth thing. well its great to help young people, i’ve never ever known a young person to benefit from the yha and i have lived in a poor area all my life. you should consider that the majority of people who stay at hostels are over 21. so it is the older people who are keeping the association alive. if they want to maintain that the best way to do it is to have policies that keep customers happy and wanting to come back again and again. the way to lose customers is to go along the path they have been going along since around 2004 and increase prices in all areas by large percentages. personally i think it has become that expensive that i dont understand why anyone other than people travelling alone choose to stay at hostels. for example most places must have a hotel or b & b that doesnt cost a married couple much more to stay at than what it would cost the couple to stay at a hostel. it is only single travellers that really save much money at a hostel compared to a hotel.
Comment by mark wallis — 7 Jan 2008 @ 4:36 pm
me,
i have found something sensible in one of your posts. regarding hostels going towards being b & bs’. it seems too late. every year more and more hostels become b & b’s. its not so bad for those who can afford it but the people who have limited means will struggle even more. it means going from having a very cheap self catered breakfast to one that is costing them an extra 3 to 4 pounds per night.
regarding evening meals. there is more choice at some hostels and apart from the higher prices there is no difference. for example in 2001 i had a 3 course meal at patterdale yh that cost around £5. the main dish was borrowdale trout with veggies. last year in 2007 i had the same thing but missed out the starter because i couldnt afford it. so the main dish of borrowdale trout with veggies and a pudding cost me £9. if i had had the starter it would have been closer to £12. so in 6 years the same meal at the same standard increased in price by a massive 140%. saying all that it is no where near as bad as their overnight stay pricing policy nowadays because at least we dont have to buy the meals while staying at a hostel(unless it is a b&b).
Comment by mark wallis — 7 Jan 2008 @ 4:51 pm