The No-Breakfast Levy?
Last month the Board of Trustees decided to switch a further nine hostels from compulsory bed and breakfast to normal operation, as reported in Karl’s latest blog post.
This move will be welcomed by hostellers who have special dietary needs, need to get away early in the morning, or just prefer to skip breakfast in the morning. It should also be good news for people of limited means, for whom the cost saving of not having to pay for a breakfast could be significant.
Or so you would think, but when I asked YHA Assistant Treasurer Helen Maurice-Jones whether prices would be brought down in line with a return to self catering, the best she could offer was: “We’re looking at that”. No commitment has been made to any price reduction as a result of this decision.
The removal of compulsory B&B is described as a “trial” rather than a decisive change in policy. If prices aren’t changed, it’ll just be a trial of whether YHA can squeeze an extra fiver a night out of people without delivering anything extra for the money.
Surely YHA aren’t going to turn a popular decision into a massive own goal?
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YHA could win football matches with the number of own goals they’ve created in recent years! It is quite obvious – if a compulsory breakfast is removed then the overnight price should come down. But there’s one hostel I know where the breakfasts are so good that I think they should keep the arrangement going there!
I’ve had good breakfasts at a number of hostels. I don’t want them to remove the ability to buy in a breakfast if you want one – I just think people should have the choice.
In the interests of consumer information, though, which hostel do you have in mind Roger?
I remember the introduction of the ‘bed and breakfast’ regime at certain hostels. It was unpopular at the time – certainly within the Local Group to which I belonged – and we never went to those hostels again. This about-turn has come too late for me, I’m afraid. A lifelong hosteller, I changed my allegiance to Travelodge some time ago. As long as I book well in advance I can take the family (two adults and two children) for a total of £19 a night in some hotels and never pay more than about £30.
YHA Bed and Breakfast
YHA believes that guests and members should be able to choose whether they want to buy breakfast. Many guests and members have felt this choice to be important too and have told YHA so for a number of years.
Now, at 13 Youth Hostels where breakfast was included in the price, guests can choose whether they want to buy breakfast and YHA is continuing to trial this major change.
Guests wanting to take breakfast may pay slightly more than they would have done when the price included breakfast. At the same time, those who do not want to buy breakfast are likely to pay less.
YHA would like to have dropped the price for a night’s stay without breakfast by the price of breakfast. However this is not simple, particularly as prices fall and rise with demand. When everyone takes breakfast there are economies of scale. YHA believes that overall customers will understand the situation and will really appreciate having the choice again.
The full list of hostels where guests now have the opportunity to choose is as follows:
St Pancras
St Pauls
Manchester
Ambleside
York
Canterbury
Liverpool
Cambridge
Oxford
Capel Curig
Arundel
Buttermere
Whitby
Those who have moved their allegiance to Travellodge/Premier Inn might like to see who they are sharing with: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1230761/Jane-Andrews-Fergies-killer-aide-days-run-prison.html
Just as well they don’t have self catering kitchens with knifes around in them, isn’t it?
Ah! But I have my own private room and can lock the door. No sharing a dormitory with anyone potentially dodgy!
Seriously, I gave up on the YHA because they became too expensive – and flexible pricing made me feel as if I was being ripped off. In some hostels I was forced to pay for a breakfast that I didn’t want; I loathe en suites (OK for families but not when you’re sharing with strangers); the hostels were increasingly closed to card-carrying members at the very times that I could get away; the YHA’s blowing of its own trumpet over ‘luxury hostels’ when that isn’t what hostelling is about really irritats me – I could go on. I meet up with my old YHA group every year and we are all of the same mindset – hostelled for years but have all given up, apart from the odd night here and there – not because we WANTED to give up, but for the reasons that I’ve outlined. Now that I’ve becomed accustomed to using Travelodge (where I make breakfast in my room and don’t have to pay for a hotel one) I doubt that I will ever return to the YHA.
Great news in Marie’s last sentence, now I’ll be able to stay at hostels with at least one less character poisoning the conversation with moans about prices, breakfasts, bedding and how it was all much better in the old days.
“where I make breakfast in my room and don’t have to pay” – saves a fortune but just a bit inconvenient bringing the cooker, frying pan, toaster, microwave, plates, cutlery, kitchen sink, etc. every time,
But it WAS better in the olden days, Me. And I’m not the only one who thinks that the YHA has lost its way. Also, like a lot of people, I only have cereal for breakfast – which is why I object to being forced to pay for a cooked offering that I don’t want. The members’ kitchens are one of YHA’s greatest strengths but it seems to me that they don’t seem to realise this – in my final days of hostelling I couldn’t help thinking that the kitchens seemed to be getting smaller, presumably in the hope that people would opt for hostel meals instead of self catering.
zzzz oh it’s the broken record again. You’ve already said you’re not coming back so do us all a favour and let the echoes of your opinions fade away with your presence
I too never minded doing a chore and would love to still be paying a shilling a night but times have changed since the olden days and we must realise that if the YHA can fill its beds with customers willing to pay good money for a hearty cooked breakfast then it will be glad to see the back of ageing tight-fisted whingers who can get by on just a bowl of cereal each morning.
That would be fine if YHA was just a budget hotel business; but it’s supposed to be a charity whose objective is to provide accommodation for people of limited means.
Forcing people to buy a breakfast that they don’t want purely to make more money out of them hardly gels with that objective in my book.
I’m not saying it’s fine but we all know the YHA has been as much a business as a charity for many years now which is just about acceptable to the Charity Commission so long as it still has a few schemes aimed at young people of limited means, not that these are the same as those young people of limited means the YHA was founded for, the twelve year olds who would go off hostelling, capable of cooking their own breakfasts and looking after themselves without adults accompanying them.
If breakfasts should be optional and charged seperately then perhaps the same should also be the case for hiring a hostel sleeping bag, using the members kitchen, taking a shower and parking a motor vehicle on hostel premises.
Yes, it WAS better in the olden days !
this is welcome for me as one of the hostels i stay at regularly is buttermere. i prefer to self cater for 2 reasons. 1. it is more convenient. 2. i have a low income and it is cheaper to self cater. it will be interesting to see what the overnight stay at buttermere will be in 2010. am i a whinger just because i want to keep the cost of a trip to a low a level as possible due to my low income? over the past 5 years the yha has introduced a few things that i think are out of order.
1. varied over night pricing.
2. a massive increase in the price of meals.
3. removal of the concession for people with limited means.
4. introduction of b and b only hostels.
5. removal of bring your own alcohol.
6. big increase per year for overnight stays.
regarding point number 2, 5 years ago it was just over £5 for a 3 course evening meal. the following year it all changed. the last time i considered buying an evening meal was 2 years ago at holly how yh. i discovered it would cost roughly £16 for a 3 course evening meal. that is as much as what it costs to stay overnight. it is also more than 200% more than 3 years earlier.
on the removal of the bring your own alcohol rule. the reason given is licencing laws say it is illegal. how come people can take their own alcohol to hotels so long as they drink it in their own room? i am talking about hotels that also have a licence to sell alcohol. it is just used to try and make people buy their alcohol from the hostel instead of the local offy. it doesnt work with me. i just go to a pub. before this was brought in i used to buy alcohol when i stayed at black sail at offy prices(£1 a can) now it is over £3.
on point number 6, i will use buttermere as an example. in 10 years the overnight price has gone up by over 100%. the reason we are given for all of these policies is the yha is losing money. how can this be? if you consider how many beds are in most rooms and add up the total made by one room per night it is just as much as what a hotel makes from one room.
rant over.
The legal position regarding bring-your-own-booze was described in this post last year (it’s too much to expect YHA to explain it anywhere themselves). I’ve found hostel staff usually turn a blind eye to it in practice, provided you’re not too blatant about it.
I too await next years prices with interest. I’ve already seen a big price hike on a weekend I’m planning at Elterwater, I hope it isn’t repeated more generally.
i’ve just booked my hostels for this year and it seems while some places are sensible with their prices others have decided to have massive price hikes. for example coniston holly how has held their price for this year while black sail has gone up by £4 per night, if it wasnt such a great location i would stop going there, the rooms are so drafty. regarding the subject of b’n'b hostels. buttermere which now does not include the breakfast has not reduced the overnight price accordingly. so as breakfast costs £4.95 that means they have put their overnight prices up by £4.95. i am wondering if they would have been charging as much as £26.90 for an overnight stay if they still included the breakfast. the common price like last year during peak season is £21.95. so add the price of the breakfast and that is were the £26.90 figure comes from.
I’m getting a bit fed up with this war of one type of customer versus another – people with limited means come in all guises and ages: singles, couples, families and small/large groups/friends. YHA needs to wise up and diversify within their hostels not between them. Last year I stayed in a hostel(not UK)that had bunk bed dorms with shared toilets and showers on one floor, and upstairs had a small no. of triples and quads with divan beds, some ensuite, plus 2 tiny double bed rooms for couples.It had a large kitchen for self caterers and a lounge(with internet connection)to sit and chat in. It was great to see families, groups of young adults, single travellers and retired couples using the same place.
I suspect charity begins and ends at the top for the YHA!
http://www.worksmart.org.uk/company/company.php?id=00282555#Historical_salaries
Directors awarded around a 80% pay rise to £153k, 2007/08 (Perhaps this is what the YHA considers people of limited means!!!) with a 91.2% director pay increase over the last 7 years (biggest hike year 2007/08), while all other employees are told no pay rise for you this year against a background of £4m profit!
Seems to me if the powers that be in the YHA are so self serving (recent politicians expense scandal and bankers bonuses springs to mind) then how can the customer expect even a free cuppa!
I wouldn’t put too much trust in these figures, YHA certainly doesn’t have 87 directors as the site claims – no matter how top heavy you think the organisation is. And besides the figure given is total expenditure of directors, not average salary per director.
Hey Me, read the site first matey, it states ‘Directors’ Remuneration’ & 87 is I believe total number of directors since inception. One point you do make is worth a note though, yes, the YHA is top heavy!
That’s an interesting site, though having read it I note that they say ‘As Peter Snow would say, “This is only a bit of fun”‘. I don’t find anywhere where it says the number of directors is the total number since inception. Even if it did mean that, 87 sounds too high. According to the YHA web site, “YHA employs a Chief Executive, and 7 directors”. Could 87 actually be a mistype for 8?
There’s no doubt that £153K is a total amount, rather than an amount per director. In the set of graphs further down the page it’s shown as “Total Directors’ Remuneration”. Splitting the £153K between the eight of them yields salaries of less than £20K each – pretty modest for an organisation of YHA’s size.
I suspect that the apparent hike in wages actually reflects an expansion of the number of directors – I know there has been quite a bit of restructuring at the top in recent years. You only have to take, say, a Marketing Manager and say “you are henceforth Director of Marketing” to make a big spike in this graph without actually spending any extra money.
87 is more likely to be a misprint of &7. Whatever total expenditure on directors is going to be more than £153k. I saw a YHA directors job (health and safety I think) advertised on the Times website recently and the pay was about £44,000. Multiply that by 7 and add on more for the Chief Exec and you get to about £360,000. For an organisation with an annual turnover in excess of £70 million that’s still pretty low.
At anyone who thinks it’s top heavy trying running an organisation that size on less and watch what happens – you just won’t be able to attract people qualified to do the business.
Just looked at the accounts for 2008/9. Total staff costs were £18.4 million. They were paying an agency £150,000 for an acting chief exec (so her pay will have been around £80k) and 6 other people earned over £60k – and 3 of those were becasue the figures included redundancy payments.
All in all the directors pay is peanuts against the overall salaries bill.
If you want to look into YHA’s finances in more detail, they publish their accounts going back to 2005 on their web site. Personally, I want to see YHA well managed. I think it would be hard to do that if they don’t pay market rates.
Chris, I agree with you but there are those around here who don’t want to or can’t accept this, and still think YHA can (should be) run on a shoestring by a small number of volunteers without the necessary skills in their spare time. If that were possible I’d be all for it but it isn’t.